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Smashing Silos

Curator Susan Cross on ceramics today and what we can learn from the artists in Ceramics in the Expanded Field, her recently curated exhibition at MASS MoCA.

Howl7 ft2 web header
Howl07 smashing teddy bear
Teddy Bear Caryatid (2021)
Francesca DiMattio
Glaze and gold luster on porcelain, steel, Plexiglass. Photo: David Dashiell.
Howl7 ft2 castilos
Castillos (2021)
Armando Guadalupe Cortés
Adobe, cedar, obsidian, Tlaloche seed pod, Mesquite seed pod, blue desiccated lizard, flint stone, pyrite, turquoise, colorines, mother of pearl, fire opal, chiles, amulets (stick, string, feather), palo santo, chiles, braided hair (the artist’s mother’s), Silver dollar, Ocotillo thorns. Photo: David Dashiell.
Howl7 ft2 the star cropped
The Star (2020)
Jessica Jackson Hutchins
Glazed ceramic, upholstered blue paisley chair, wood, wood stain. Photo: David Dashiell
— How did you become interested in ceramics?

There are so many dif­fer­ent ways I can answer this ques­tion because, in ret­ro­spect, I real­ized I’d grown up with ceram­ics. They were part of the water I was swim­ming in. It was part of my dai­ly expe­ri­ence, along with the fact that we ate off of ceram­ics — off of plates and cups made by peo­ple that we knew. It was part of dai­ly life and aesthetics.

When I start­ed think­ing about it as a cura­tor, I noticed that about 12 to 15 years ago there was an explo­sion of ceram­ics in some of the gal­leries in New York and in pri­vate col­lec­tions. There have been artists work­ing in clay for decades, cen­turies, mil­len­nia … But in the con­tem­po­rary world, you hadn’t seen ceram­ics so much and it had been real­ly left out of con­ver­sa­tions about con­tem­po­rary sculp­ture and rel­e­gat­ed to a world of craft, often even seen in an ethno­graph­ic context.

— You’ve noted that ceramics have long been marginalized. Why do you think that ceramics are increasingly being highlighted in contemporary art shows? What has changed?

Every decade, we say that we’re break­ing down hier­ar­chies, but it seems like it’s nev­er enough and there are more hier­ar­chies to be bro­ken down … I think that ceram­ics are ben­e­fit­ing from this more inclu­sive view of art making.

As we look at a cul­ture that was very Euro­cen­tric and patri­ar­chal, we’re look­ing at art forms that were often rel­e­gat­ed to the side because they were con­nect­ed to the domes­tic sphere and women’s labor. Although ceram­ics are, for exam­ple, high­ly prized in Japan, a lot of the West­ern world kept them siloed. Now we’re real­iz­ing the impor­tance of inclu­siv­i­ty on so many lev­els: Who’s mak­ing art? How are they mak­ing art? What do we con­sid­er art ver­sus craft?

— Your recent exhibition, Ceramics in the Expanded Field at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art (MASS MoCA), pulls its name from the critic and theorist Rosalind Krauss’ 1979 essay “Sculpture in the Expanded Field.” How did the essay inform this exhibition and how does the exhibition evolve Krauss’s observations?

The title of the exhi­bi­tion is meant to com­mu­ni­cate some­thing for those who don’t know the Krauss essay and those who do. At its face val­ue, it lets peo­ple know what the show is about very direct­ly: ceram­ics in an expand­ed field of mak­ing that includes the artist’s work in the fields of pho­tog­ra­phy, print­mak­ing, video, instal­la­tion, per­for­mance, design, and architecture.

The ref­er­ence to the Krauss essay can also be rather sim­ple, but at the same time com­plex and lay­ered, so a quick answer can be chal­leng­ing. On the sur­face, my ref­er­ence to Krauss’ argu­ment sug­gests that the def­i­n­i­tions, and per­haps expec­ta­tions, of ceram­ics are being expand­ed as Krauss was not­ing about sculp­ture at the time of her arti­cle. There is anoth­er lay­er in this as well — while any def­i­n­i­tion of sculp­ture does not nec­es­sar­i­ly describe a mate­r­i­al, ceram­ics’ seems to be both a cat­e­go­ry of form, a mate­r­i­al, and a process.

— How do the eight artists curated for Ceramics showcase the ways in which ceramics inspire the art world—or other creative industries—more broadly?

An impor­tant aspect of the show in that notion of the expand­ed field and break­ing hier­ar­chies down fur­ther is that a lot of our artists are work­ing in oth­er modes of mak­ing that — like clay — are also con­sid­ered out­side the fine art world, for lack of a bet­ter word. I showed Rose Simpson’s car [titled Maria (2014)] as an image, but it’s actu­al­ly a sculp­ture. She restored this low rid­er her­self and paint­ed it to pay homage to Tewa artist Maria Mar­tinez and her black-on-black ceram­ics. But, Rose also has a degree in met­al­work, so I want­ed to show that aspect of her mak­ing, which she inte­grates into her clay sculp­tures … Arman­do Cortés made ves­sels, but, to me, he actu­al­ly made an archi­tec­tur­al piece wrap­ping MASS MoCA’s columns in adobe and cedar. So, we’re think­ing about how clay has been used for build­ing. Like­wise, Khalil Robert Irv­ing is often ref­er­enc­ing how clay is used to make bricks, and the impor­tance of that indus­try in St. Louis, where he is from.

Most of the artists are also work­ing in yet anoth­er dis­ci­pline that has been left out of muse­ums and, again, in this hier­ar­chy placed in a dif­fer­ent category.

Susan Cross is Senior Cura­tor of Visu­al Arts at MASS MoCA, where she has orga­nized exhi­bi­tions, com­mis­sions, and per­for­mances. Pre­vi­ous­ly, she was a Cura­tor at the Solomon R. Guggen­heim Muse­um, New York.

— How did you become interested in ceramics?

There are so many dif­fer­ent ways I can answer this ques­tion because, in ret­ro­spect, I real­ized I’d grown up with ceram­ics. They were part of the water I was swim­ming in. It was part of my dai­ly expe­ri­ence, along with the fact that we ate off of ceram­ics — off of plates and cups made by peo­ple that we knew. It was part of dai­ly life and aesthetics.

When I start­ed think­ing about it as a cura­tor, I noticed that about 12 to 15 years ago there was an explo­sion of ceram­ics in some of the gal­leries in New York and in pri­vate col­lec­tions. There have been artists work­ing in clay for decades, cen­turies, mil­len­nia … But in the con­tem­po­rary world, you hadn’t seen ceram­ics so much and it had been real­ly left out of con­ver­sa­tions about con­tem­po­rary sculp­ture and rel­e­gat­ed to a world of craft, often even seen in an ethno­graph­ic context.

— You’ve noted that ceramics have long been marginalized. Why do you think that ceramics are increasingly being highlighted in contemporary art shows? What has changed?

Every decade, we say that we’re break­ing down hier­ar­chies, but it seems like it’s nev­er enough and there are more hier­ar­chies to be bro­ken down … I think that ceram­ics are ben­e­fit­ing from this more inclu­sive view of art making.

Howl07 smashing teddy bear
Teddy Bear Caryatid (2021)
Francesca DiMattio
Glaze and gold luster on porcelain, steel, Plexiglass. Photo: David Dashiell.

As we look at a cul­ture that was very Euro­cen­tric and patri­ar­chal, we’re look­ing at art forms that were often rel­e­gat­ed to the side because they were con­nect­ed to the domes­tic sphere and women’s labor. Although ceram­ics are, for exam­ple, high­ly prized in Japan, a lot of the West­ern world kept them siloed. Now we’re real­iz­ing the impor­tance of inclu­siv­i­ty on so many lev­els: Who’s mak­ing art? How are they mak­ing art? What do we con­sid­er art ver­sus craft?

— Your recent exhibition, Ceramics in the Expanded Field at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art (MASS MoCA), pulls its name from the critic and theorist Rosalind Krauss’ 1979 essay “Sculpture in the Expanded Field.” How did the essay inform this exhibition and how does the exhibition evolve Krauss’s observations?

The title of the exhi­bi­tion is meant to com­mu­ni­cate some­thing for those who don’t know the Krauss essay and those who do. At its face val­ue, it lets peo­ple know what the show is about very direct­ly: ceram­ics in an expand­ed field of mak­ing that includes the artist’s work in the fields of pho­tog­ra­phy, print­mak­ing, video, instal­la­tion, per­for­mance, design, and architecture.

The ref­er­ence to the Krauss essay can also be rather sim­ple, but at the same time com­plex and lay­ered, so a quick answer can be chal­leng­ing. On the sur­face, my ref­er­ence to Krauss’ argu­ment sug­gests that the def­i­n­i­tions, and per­haps expec­ta­tions, of ceram­ics are being expand­ed as Krauss was not­ing about sculp­ture at the time of her arti­cle. There is anoth­er lay­er in this as well — while any def­i­n­i­tion of sculp­ture does not nec­es­sar­i­ly describe a mate­r­i­al, ceram­ics’ seems to be both a cat­e­go­ry of form, a mate­r­i­al, and a process.

Howl7 ft2 castilos
Castillos (2021)
Armando Guadalupe Cortés
Adobe, cedar, obsidian, Tlaloche seed pod, Mesquite seed pod, blue desiccated lizard, flint stone, pyrite, turquoise, colorines, mother of pearl, fire opal, chiles, amulets (stick, string, feather), palo santo, chiles, braided hair (the artist’s mother’s), Silver dollar, Ocotillo thorns. Photo: David Dashiell.
— How do the eight artists curated for Ceramics showcase the ways in which ceramics inspire the art world—or other creative industries—more broadly?

An impor­tant aspect of the show in that notion of the expand­ed field and break­ing hier­ar­chies down fur­ther is that a lot of our artists are work­ing in oth­er modes of mak­ing that — like clay — are also con­sid­ered out­side the fine art world, for lack of a bet­ter word. I showed Rose Simpson’s car [titled Maria (2014)] as an image, but it’s actu­al­ly a sculp­ture. She restored this low rid­er her­self and paint­ed it to pay homage to Tewa artist Maria Mar­tinez and her black-on-black ceram­ics. But, Rose also has a degree in met­al­work, so I want­ed to show that aspect of her mak­ing, which she inte­grates into her clay sculp­tures … Arman­do Cortés made ves­sels, but, to me, he actu­al­ly made an archi­tec­tur­al piece wrap­ping MASS MoCA’s columns in adobe and cedar. So, we’re think­ing about how clay has been used for build­ing. Like­wise, Khalil Robert Irv­ing is often ref­er­enc­ing how clay is used to make bricks, and the impor­tance of that indus­try in St. Louis, where he is from.

Most of the artists are also work­ing in yet anoth­er dis­ci­pline that has been left out of muse­ums and, again, in this hier­ar­chy placed in a dif­fer­ent category.

Susan Cross is Senior Cura­tor of Visu­al Arts at MASS MoCA, where she has orga­nized exhi­bi­tions, com­mis­sions, and per­for­mances. Pre­vi­ous­ly, she was a Cura­tor at the Solomon R. Guggen­heim Muse­um, New York.

Howl7 ft2 the star cropped
The Star (2020)
Jessica Jackson Hutchins
Glazed ceramic, upholstered blue paisley chair, wood, wood stain. Photo: David Dashiell